Syria next?

[Justin 05 STi]

What do you think?

Opposition there has been getting more ballsy, and pwned for it. And Turkey is talking all kinds of shit:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/11/21/turkey-syria-cant-oppress-its-people-forever/

A few weeks ago a no fly zone was "all but ruled out":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/30/nato-syria-no-fly-zone

And now our embassy is telling Americans to GTFO "immediately":
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57330452/u.s-urges-americans-to-leave-syria-immediately/

Here we go again...

[FOACAD]

Obama doesnt have the balls to do anything except like what he did in Libya.

In the end though, i dont think much will come of it in terms of US forces is concerned. I mean, according to the alt media, werent we supposed to be invading Pakistan by now? err i mean, Iran by now? errr i mean boots on the ground in Libya? err no wait, Lebanon right?

[Justin 05 STi]

:confused:

I don't get your alt media comment. Were my links not mainstream enough?

[FOACAD]

My point was that yes there is still a lot of shit going on over there, but there are OTHER PEOPLE (which arent in your post at all) that think the things that followed alt media in my post...

[jasman18]

Cool to see. Let those citizens decide. If they want a revolution that could possibly make things even more crazy, good for them.

Get the popcorn out and watch.
It's not our concern anyway, no need to waste more money over there with money and resources we don't have(like we wasted rockets in Libya)

[babymobilss]

they got the guy of egypt to step down and one of his right hand men was put in his place haha. Lots of craziness going on in that area of the world. I can't believe all these long term dictators are just bailing.

[Justin 05 STi]

My point was that yes there is still a lot of shit going on over there, but there are OTHER PEOPLE (which arent in your post at all) that think the things that followed alt media in my post...

Ok... So what do YOU think? It sounds like you think we should go in unilaterally, but won't.

[phreakdna]

Obama doesnt have the balls to do anything except like what he did in Libya.
wtf does that even mean?

he doesn't have the balls to get us entrenched in yet another deficit-hiking, American blood-spilling ME fuckfest?
well thank whatever god you care to believe in for that.


Libya showed that while continuing to be a bit messy, if our President is smart enough and diplomatically saavy, we can build coalitions and use the UN to save money and military capacity while addressing some conflicts...

we helped depose a dictator that, while seemingly cooperating now, had supported terrorist actions against US citizens and allies at a cost of $1B or so... aka less than a single month of the costs in Iraq/Afghanistan during those conflicts.

why would that be considered a bad thing?

[FOACAD]

Ok... So what do YOU think? It sounds like you think we should go in unilaterally, but won't.
No, but if the UN asked us to put boots on the ground, he wouldnt. That was my point.

The Arab league is dealing Syria a pretty big blow. The interesting thing to watch in that, though, is if they follow through with their threats.

[Ryan H.]

You honestly expect the UN to do something worthwhile? Ie besides writing 'you've been bad, stop it!' notes.

[YourWorstNightmare]

Certainly not with our 2013 Fiasco on the horizon

[Ryan H.]

Certainly not with our 2013 Fiasco on the horizon

Just how high will unemployment peak?

How many soldiers/sailors/marines/airmen will be forced an early out?

Really scared the Reserve's won't take me next dec when I switch over.

[YourWorstNightmare]

Just how high will unemployment peak?

How many soldiers/sailors/marines/airmen will be forced an early out?

Really scared the Reserve's won't take me next dec when I switch over.


I don't mean just unemployed vets, I mean the lack of a military we're about to have.

We won't even be able to protect our own nation at the rate we're headed.


Pearl Harbor v2.0

[Ryan H.]

I don't mean just unemployed vets, I mean the lack of a military we're about to have.

We won't even be able to protect our own nation at the rate we're headed.


Pearl Harbor v2.0

And you know China is giddy as all hell because of this.

[MountainDew]

Turkey and the PKK have been at it for over 30 years resolving nothing. Can't wait until I finish this 2000 word paper over this shit.

[YourWorstNightmare]

And you know China is giddy as all hell because of this.


Exactly! They're over there laughing their little pan faces off!

:shock:

[jasman18]

I don't mean just unemployed vets, I mean the lack of a military we're about to have.



You say it as if it's a bad thing.

[Azrael]

You say it as if it's a bad thing.

:hahano:

[FOACAD]

You say it as if it's a bad thing.
and you say this as if its a GOOD thing?

wtf?

we arent norway. we cant just go isolationist with no military.

[jasman18]

The US is broke.
Cutting funding is the best way to get troops out of countries that nobody wants us to be in that we have zero obligation to help.
Imagine our troops securing our own borders and operating within a sustainable budget.

[FOACAD]

The US is broke.
Cutting funding is the best way to get troops out of countries that nobody wants us to be in that we have zero obligation to help.
Imagine our troops securing our own borders and operating within a sustainable budget.
You realize we have something called the national guard that isnt even utilized for border security right?

If we mobilized each states NG that sites on the border we could secure it with ease. The problem is the federal govt doesnt want that to happen. It is for political reasons that we do not secure our border, not because we cant due to Active Duty soliders not being within our borders.

at the peak of the wars we had less than 10% of the total military man power deployed. that is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things.

the US is broke, but cutting the military down and releasing even more unemployment problems is far and away not a good idea. there is sooooo much waste in every govt agency including the military that could be cut. yes some of that is personnel waste, but cutting military troop numbers isnt something that should be done in a drastic way right now. too many other areas that need to be addressed first.

[jasman18]

You realize we have something called the national guard that isnt even utilized for border security right?

If we mobilized each states NG that sites on the border we could secure it with ease. The problem is the federal govt doesnt want that to happen. It is for political reasons that we do not secure our border, not because we cant due to Active Duty soliders not being within our borders.

at the peak of the wars we had less than 10% of the total military man power deployed. that is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things.

the US is broke, but cutting the military down and releasing even more unemployment problems is far and away not a good idea. there is sooooo much waste in every govt agency including the military that could be cut. yes some of that is personnel waste, but cutting military troop numbers isnt something that should be done in a drastic way right now. too many other areas that need to be addressed first.

I understand and agree with most of your statement.
I disagree on the solution.
Only utilizing 10% of the military just shows that it is too large. The government shouldn't be employing so many people to begin with unless it has ample funds to do so. But, even then as you said that extra money could be put to much better use elsewhere.

"Releasing more unemployment problems" may not be a good idea but its the best one on a short list.
The medicine is going to taste bad but its necessary.

People don't seem to understand that in another decade or two we are going to be no different than italy and greece. Once your debt goes over 100% of the GDP it's just a ticking time bomb.

I don't know about you but I would rather have some umemployment now and get back on track instead of massive unemployment and collapse that would be much worse.

To get back on track.
We can't afford to go to Syria. Hell, if we had the money why not test our brand new bombs and give the troops some cool toys to use. I would be all for it.

[Azrael]

Jasman, you obviously know little of how the military works. Just because 10 are DEPLOYED to afganistan/Iraq does not mean 90% of us are at home loafing around. There is other missions and obligations we are always running and meeting. A smaller military wouldn't be good, at all. We are what we are BECAUSE of our military capacity. I understand what you're saying with some cuts, but all money being slashed for new equip, man and etc would be a dramatic slap in the face. I would rather see less cuts in equip but a better use of money on frivolous shit. I hate to say it but its the typical left wing swingers that always go after the military with the axe when they don't really understand it. That's like me going after welfare and other social things when I don't know much about it. If you've ever worked in the military side of things you'd see that our shit is out of date, broken and more. I personally don't know much on the Syria thing, but I don't think we should be there. We need a break. I'm on my phone so this is a half chopped up post but I'm sure you get where I'm coming from.

[jasman18]

Jasman, you obviously know little of how the military works. Just because 10 are DEPLOYED to afganistan/Iraq does not mean 90% of us are at home loafing around. There is other missions and obligations we are always running and meeting. A smaller military wouldn't be good, at all. We are what we are BECAUSE of our military capacity. I understand what you're saying with some cuts, but all money being slashed for new equip, man and etc would be a dramatic slap in the face. I would rather see less cuts in equip but a better use of money on frivolous shit. I hate to say it but its the typical left wing swingers that always go after the military with the axe when they don't really understand it. That's like me going after welfare and other social things when I don't know much about it. If you've ever worked in the military side of things you'd see that our shit is out of date, broken and more. I personally don't know much on the Syria thing, but I don't think we should be there. We need a break. I'm on my phone so this is a half chopped up post but I'm sure you get where I'm coming from.

I'm Glad you contributed. I will try to address all your good points because I don't know if you caught all mine.
Regarding the other 90%: of course they are out on missions doing things. The question is do they need to be? Most likely not.
If we don't have the cash to support them then we need to pull back until we do.

A slap in the face is what we need to get out of our old mindset of putting so much emphasis on the military before our need to SUPPLY it correctly. We can't supply it correctly unless we have a nice big budget to do so.

Try not to misunderstand my statements thinking they are left wing. These are fiscal conservative arguments. (something our nation solely lacks right now)
There also needs to be big cuts in welfare, medicare, medicaid, social security and any other department with a giant budget. I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating them if they found a way to do it.

My core point is we are broke but we keep spending as if there is no credit limit. People think since this America that a collapse can't happen to us like it has to other countries that have overspent. Sad news is that it will. All you have to do is look at the countries that are going through it now.

We need massive cuts in all departments in order to get out of it and on the path to the right direction.
These cuts SHOULD hurt, it will leave millions without jobs it, will be miserable, horrible even.
But the alliterative is going completely broke and leaving 3 times that many without jobs, retirement savings, social security, etc.
How would we protect our borders then if we could not even pay our troops or provide them the equipment necessary to defend the country.

Your right I'm not a military guy, so don't take my word for it...... Take Navy Admeral Mike Mullens words
“I’ve said many times that I believe the single, biggest threat to our national security is our debt"
General Martin Dempsey States the same thing.

[Azrael]

I do mostly agree with you there but we do a TON of humanitarian missions, so that's pretty important. We have a few different missions, but I'm sure some could be cut. We don't do everything for us, we do things to support our allies too. Good post and you have good points. I think were close to the same page.. Kinda. Another thing that could help us out, is the goddamn contractors and suppliers not raping us on prices of good and equip. It sickens me. If they did that, our budget would drop like a dead bird. Better management of money and the proper price would make me feel a little better. I'm sure we could agree with that. I hope I dont sound like a douche.

[Ryan H.]

My head hurts. To much ignorance.

[jasman18]

Read more often your brain will get used to the pain from "putting more stuff in it".

[Justin 05 STi]

Taking it up another notch... Russia provides some missiles:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2068754/Russia-admits-supplying-Syria-cruise-missiles.html

Interesting that the sale was penned way back in 2007. I wonder what prompted Russia to finally deliver?