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cbr_954
2014-06-06, 11:07 AM
I had a blast all week on my boss's 4 wheeler out in the dirt roads and mountain trails in Arkansas with my gf. I got her to learn to drive the 4 wheeler and I'm wanting to move up to a dirt bike.

The 4 wheeler is a 4 stroke and does great, fires right up and never said no no matter what I threw at it. It's a honda 400ex.

I wanna get a dirt bike but not sure if I want 2strole or 4.

I love how reliable this 400ex is, but I keep hearing 4 strokes are more expensive in the long run and require more maintenance?

And 2 strokes require rebuilding more often but it's much simpler to do and cheaper.


I've rode plenty of street bikes, but never had as much fun as I have on dirt roads and trails. Help me pick a good bike lol

I keep looking at 2 stroke crf250's and 4stroke crf450

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h67/naughtycubanita/tito/C0566E39-5896-4577-80F7-1CB380F62335_zpsktgyxtai.jpg

Karlen
2014-06-06, 12:23 PM
Why is this even a question. Get a 250 2 stroke.

cbr_954
2014-06-06, 12:27 PM
That's what I've been looking for the most. Just wanted more opinions besides the biased shit I've read online.

cbr_954
2014-06-06, 12:29 PM
Why do I keep seeing 250's that are four stroke?

How can I tell the difference by just looking at pics if the add doesn't specify?

Karlen
2014-06-06, 12:33 PM
Fatty pipe = 2 stroke

I'm fairly certain if the model name has F on the end it's 4, and maybe R is 2. Also not many companies make 2 anymore, Yamaha and KTM are two I know.

Karlen
2014-06-06, 12:36 PM
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/4491664246.html

cbr_954
2014-06-06, 01:13 PM
I think I messaged that guy and he don't have a title. I was looking for one with a title to register it and drive it around town.

Idk I I could put street tires on oem wheels, the warp 9 wheels are expensive as shit.

brveagle
2014-06-06, 01:42 PM
I don't know if you are in a different state, if so, forgive me.

But you will not be able to buy a dirtbike and aquire a plate for it. They will all be for offroad use only. Now if you pick up a "dual sport" aka a dirtbike with certain streetbike features enough to make it legal. Aka a dr, klx, etc. In modern years, there has not been any 2 stroke dual sports. Obviously this varies per state.

Also crf250 is a four stroke. Drop the f for a 2 stroke. i.e. Cr250, Rm250, yz250.

cbr_954
2014-06-06, 01:51 PM
I was under the impression I could register any bike as long as it had lights, blinkers and a speedo. I haven't looked up kits for a 250, but I know they make plenty of light kits for the 450.

I live in Kansas, I want the dirt bike mostly for when I go to Arkansas, but would like to be able to drive it around town here if I wanted to. Otherwise I can't justify spending 2k + on something id only ride a few times a year.

cbr_954
2014-06-08, 10:09 AM
I've decided to go with a 4 stroke. Less shit to deal with when I go riding.

Next question, anyone hear of or have any problems with the newer fuel injected bikes? I almost rather stuck with a carb because if I can't I know many people who could help me he it going if I have fuel issues.

newguy99
2014-06-08, 10:46 AM
I have an 09 rmz 450, it's fuel injected and runs like a champ. I have run the piss out it and would recommend fuel injection to anyone. With regular maintenance you should have any problems, first thing I'd do get a manual and do all the proper maintenance.

As far as getting a 2 stroke registered for street use, you'll either need to "know" someone, or put a 2 stroke engine into a frame that's already been titled for street use.

I would look for a newer bike 09 and up, as fuel injection came out for most bikes in 08 and fixed alot of problems from 08 to 09. Whatever bike your looking for I would just do a quick Google search with the bikes name and the word "problems" with it. Nine times out of ten you'll find a thread where someone is looking to buy the same bike and asks for common problems. Lots of good info can be in those forums, and lead you toward what your specifically looking for.

Another thing I would look for is proper fitment of the bike. I don't know how much you weigh or how tall you are, but having a proper suspension setup (for the riding you plan on ie. Mx, trails and such) is the difference between being able to ride all day and worn out after 20 minutes. The weight of the bike plays a factor as well, if your a bigger guy then you'll be fine. If your a smaller framed guy like me it can be a pain to lug around all day.

The key is maintaining the bike and it'll run forever.

Billy Mild
2014-06-08, 07:59 PM
Why is this even a question. Get a 250 2 stroke.

Get the 2 stroke or be a fgt.

cbr_954
2014-06-09, 06:12 AM
I'm 6'2" and 250lbs. Yea that's the first thing I did with my cbr was get a manual and do all the maintenance it recomends. Thanks for the help :cheers:


Guess I'll be a fgt on a 4 stroke :)

Billy Mild
2014-06-09, 07:51 AM
If you can't tell I'm a huge 2 stroke nut. Like most of the people like me out there as long as I can find a 2 stroke to buy and ride, I will.

cbr_954
2014-06-09, 07:55 AM
I would much prefer a 2 stroke, I live the sound and crazy power band. But with my limited knowledge I think I stick to something that requires less work and maintenance.

RiskyRick
2014-06-09, 09:50 AM
I would much prefer a 2 stroke, I live the sound and crazy power band. But with my limited knowledge I think I stick to something that requires less work and maintenance.

2-stroke does = less work and maintenance. Keeping a 2-stroke tip top is a hell of a lot cheaper than messing with a 4-stroke. And if you pop it, it's cheap to rebuild instead of being more than the bike's worth.

cbr_954
2014-06-09, 10:19 AM
2 stroke I have to deal with fouled plugs and mixing gas and a bunch of other shit.


A 4 stroke as long as it's well maintained will be fine for a while. The 400ex I was on last week never said no to anything I threw at it, drove that thing aroun for hours on end, mud, rain, trails, hills it never gave up.

cbr_954
2014-06-09, 10:21 AM
Ps: I doubt I'd be able to haul ass full open throttle on a 450 where I plan to ride, lol. I doubt id pop it unless I get screwed with a fucked one I didn't notice when purchasing.

brveagle
2014-06-09, 10:24 AM
2 stroke I have to deal with fouled plugs and mixing gas and a bunch of other shit.

.

If mixing gas is too complicated for you, then i'd recommend you get a 4 stroke quad.

cbr_954
2014-06-09, 10:28 AM
Already have a 4 stroke quad I ride when I want. I want a dirt bike I can follow my gf with while she's on the quad.

Complicated? No. But definitely not as easy as pumping gas and go.

Billy Mild
2014-06-09, 11:28 AM
2 stroke I have to deal with fouled plugs and mixing gas and a bunch of other shit.


A 4 stroke as long as it's well maintained will be fine for a while. The 400ex I was on last week never said no to anything I threw at it, drove that thing aroun for hours on end, mud, rain, trails, hills it never gave up.

2 strokes usually do require less maintenance when good oil is used and mix at the right ratio's. At even a 32:1 gas oil mixture you will foul a plug once in a while. What kills plugs is running to rich of an oil mixture and a lot of idling. Doing trail riding you shouldn't be idling much. Most bikes now require a 50:1 oil mixture which doesn't foul plugs often.

My buddy had a KTM 200 EXc and he raced every weekend. He threw new rings in it 1 time. It wasn't low on compression he just wanted to make sure the bike was in tip top shape for his final race. The cylinder looked brand new. He runs bean oil in this bike and has never had an issue. That bike was a 2004.

#justsaying

2 stroke rebuild is $200. 4 stroke rebuild=Thousands of dollars.

RiskyRick
2014-06-09, 12:31 PM
4-strokes aren't just a gas-and-go situation. They add a bunch of small, expensive wear items as any high-strung motor does. Parts won't just break from abuse, as any and all run time is abusive to this type of motor.

Mixing gas takes 30 seconds out of your ride time, and unless you put around and let it idle, fouled plugs are a non issue unless your carb is jetted way off.

It's your choice, just be aware that 4-strokes aren't really a more reliable bike. The move to 4-strokes was for broader power and more tractability, not because they are cheaper or more dependable by any means.

Billy Mild
2014-06-09, 02:35 PM
4-strokes aren't just a gas-and-go situation. They add a bunch of small, expensive wear items as any high-strung motor does. Parts won't just break from abuse, as any and all run time is abusive to this type of motor.

Mixing gas takes 30 seconds out of your ride time, and unless you put around and let it idle, fouled plugs are a non issue unless your carb is jetted way off.

It's your choice, just be aware that 4-strokes aren't really a more reliable bike. The move to 4-strokes was for broader power and more tractability, not because they are cheaper or more dependable by any means.

Actually the move to 4 strokes was because of the EPA. Haha

Karlen
2014-06-09, 02:38 PM
Why do they allow 2 strokes still then?

RiskyRick
2014-06-09, 03:58 PM
Actually the move to 4 strokes was because of the EPA. Haha

You're right in regards to road vehicles, but not offroad.

newguy99
2014-06-10, 06:31 AM
If this were true, I would pre-order!

http://www.dirtrider.com/features/spy-guy-2015-honda-cr250r-direct-inject-two-stroke/


This just in: it looks as though Honda may be moving forward with plans to mass produce a Direct Inject 250cc two-stroke in 2015! The details are currently unclear, but it appears that the bike will draw on the CR250R two-stroke powerplant that was mass produced until 2007, but with a DI fuel delivery system. The chassis and bodywork clearly take cues from Honda’s existing CRF250R/ 450R lineup, with modern bodywork and a sleek design. In a nod to the CRF250X/ 450X, the bike evidently features a headlight and odometer, but no handguards. The final weight of the unit is unknown, but developers of the new bike have hinted that titanium exhaust components could help keep the end weight under 200 pounds. Clearly, this machine marks an attempt on behalf of Japanese manufacturers to compete with the Austrian companies in the off-road two-stroke segment.
Based on existing tooling and a push to sweep the market early, initial estimates put the suggested retail price under $5,000, and the rumor is that the bike will be street legal in all 50 states. Overheard at the Honda’s top secret off-road test track, star consultant and development rider Jeremy McGrath stated, “Wow, you can’t not nac-nac with this bike! I shaved two seconds off my lap times before the Honda was even warmed up, and that’s with a headlight!” Sources close to the king maintain that he may be planning a return to racing via the GNCC series under the JCR Honda banner aboard the new CR250R.
For more information on this wild new machine, check out the April 2nd, 2014 edition of the Weekly Dirt, right here on dirtrider.com.
Update, 04/02/2014: — Please take notice of the date posted. April Fool’s Day trickery. Sorry, we had to daydream!


Read more: http://www.dirtrider.com/features/spy-guy-2015-honda-cr250r-direct-inject-two-stroke/#ixzz34EckUPY8

MysticTeal95Z28
2014-06-10, 03:17 PM
If this were true, I would pre-order!

http://www.dirtrider.com/features/spy-guy-2015-honda-cr250r-direct-inject-two-stroke/

^ That "article" was an April Fool's Post from what I recall.


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______



A 125cc two-stroke & a 250cc four-stroke basically make comparable amounts of power. Same goes for a 250cc two-stroke & a 450cc four-stroke. For example on Honda model names: CR125R (two-stroke), CR250R (two-stroke), CRF250R (four-stroke), & CRF450R (four-stroke).

You have to rebuild a two-stroke (usually just a new piston & rings) more often than a four-stroke. However if I had to pick an engine to blow up from a financial stand point it would be a two-stroke since they're cheaper to rebuild. Valves, cams, heads, & all of those other moving parts get expensive pretty fast on a "thumper."

I would not even bother with trying to make an off-road competition model Motocross bike street-legal, I highly doubt that would even be possible, but I could be wrong. Maybe you could look into a dual-sport or a SuperMoto bike?

When we were racing & riding Motocross quite heavily a few years back we never worried about titles for our Motocross bikes. If we bought one used we always made sure that we had a bill of sale for the bike. However I would never, ever buy a street-legal bike that did not have a title.

When we first started racing Motocross we were on 80cc two-strokes, then made the transition to "Big Bikes" on 125cc two-strokes, then followed the wave of the industry & switched to 250cc four-strokes & 450cc four-strokes.

I think I covered everything I wanted to say? lol

Edit: Also, a 125cc two-stroke & a 250cc two-stroke have different shaped expansion chambers. If you study a little bit & memorize the difference you can eyeball them quickly & be able to tell just by a glance.

Billy Mild
2014-06-10, 09:37 PM
If this were true, I would pre-order!

http://www.dirtrider.com/features/spy-guy-2015-honda-cr250r-direct-inject-two-stroke/

Shiiii. Honda never wants people to bring back 2 strokes. Reason being, they can't make a great one.

MysticTeal95Z28
2014-06-11, 01:20 PM
I'm not smart enough to embed this non-YouTube video, so check out this link:

http://www.dirtrider.com/features/video-kawasaki-kx500-2-stroke-vs-kx450f-4-stroke/?sf27123582=1

cbr_954
2014-06-11, 07:31 PM
Holy shit I want a 2 stroke 500 lol.

Billy Mild
2014-06-11, 09:46 PM
Holy shit I want a 2 stroke 500 lol.

They make a ton of power for a dirtbike, but for a streetbike 2 stroke they don't make that much power. Only about 60 HP. If it had a decent streetport it would make more than that.

Billy Mild
2014-06-11, 09:50 PM
I'm not smart enough to embed this non-YouTube video, so check out this link:

http://www.dirtrider.com/features/video-kawasaki-kx500-2-stroke-vs-kx450f-4-stroke/?sf27123582=1

That guy is a fgt.

Think about it, 2 stroke engines haven't changed since the late 80's maybe early 90's. MotoGP quit true development in the Late 90's, but it wasn't until the early 2000's where 4 strokes really started to take over. EPA came in told everyone 2 stroke is dirty(just like diesels).

Just imagine a modern day direct injected 2 stroke with oil injection for the crankcase. Shhhhhiiiiiiiiiieeeee

Karlen
2014-06-12, 07:33 AM
Would be so much fun

cbr_954
2014-06-12, 11:36 AM
I have a old little Yamaha scooter that's two stroke. It's awesome it mixes the oil and gas for you. Is that what you mean by oil injection?

brveagle
2014-06-12, 02:01 PM
I have a old little Yamaha scooter that's two stroke. It's awesome it mixes the oil and gas for you. Is that what you mean by oil injection?

That's more of like an "auto mixer" approach...

MysticTeal95Z28
2014-06-12, 11:10 PM
That guy is a fgt.

Think about it, 2 stroke engines haven't changed since the late 80's maybe early 90's. MotoGP quit true development in the Late 90's, but it wasn't until the early 2000's where 4 strokes really started to take over. EPA came in told everyone 2 stroke is dirty(just like diesels).

Just imagine a modern day direct injected 2 stroke with oil injection for the crankcase. Shhhhhiiiiiiiiiieeeee

Think what you want, including calling Destry Abbott a fgt, ( :rolleyes: ) but he does have first-hand experience with both machines & is one Hell of a rider.

Squeaky192
2014-06-13, 08:27 AM
That guy is a fgt.

Think about it, 2 stroke engines haven't changed since the late 80's maybe early 90's. MotoGP quit true development in the Late 90's, but it wasn't until the early 2000's where 4 strokes really started to take over. EPA came in told everyone 2 stroke is dirty(just like diesels).

Just imagine a modern day direct injected 2 stroke with oil injection for the crankcase. Shhhhhiiiiiiiiiieeeee

If you watched the video, he states that, and says he wonders how a KX500 would be had it's development continued.

4 strokes are SO much easier to go fast on, especially when you get into the 50+ hp power levels that the 450's produce. Ride them a gear high and use the torque curve.

I love riding 2 strokes, they have more of a fun powerband, but you're high on 2 stroke fumes if you think the 2 stroke is a superior motocross machine.

Squeaky192
2014-06-13, 08:29 AM
Also, this thing looks killer. KTM 250 2 stroke "freeride" bike:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10383645_992244647199_2905676296119969694_n.jpg

RiskyRick
2014-06-13, 11:35 PM
Also, this thing looks killer. KTM 250 2 stroke "freeride" bike:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10383645_992244647199_2905676296119969694_n.jpg

I got confused at first by that pipe. That thing has no belly to it.



Haven't looked into it, but I don't think that's a 2-stroke.

Squeaky192
2014-06-14, 10:24 AM
I got confused at first by that pipe. That thing has no belly to it.



Haven't looked into it, but I don't think that's a 2-stroke.

It's a 2 stroke.

The pipe is definitely tuned for more low RPM action.

cbr_954
2014-06-15, 07:38 PM
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/4515626889.html


:drool:

I'm low balling people hardcore on craiglist :lol2:

RiskyRick
2014-06-16, 09:33 AM
I loled that guys dreaming hard

Billy Mild
2014-06-16, 06:07 PM
If you watched the video, he states that, and says he wonders how a KX500 would be had it's development continued.

4 strokes are SO much easier to go fast on, especially when you get into the 50+ hp power levels that the 450's produce. Ride them a gear high and use the torque curve.

I love riding 2 strokes, they have more of a fun powerband, but you're high on 2 stroke fumes if you think the 2 stroke is a superior motocross machine.

I will mention 1 person. Kenny Roberts Sr.

Everyone always talks about the lack of torque with a 2 stroke. Its called gearing use it. Plus a 500 cc. 2 stroke is not going to be lacking torque if its a thumper.

Think about this, when hot 4 strokes are hard to start, also when racing a 250cc 2 stroke with an aluminum frame is lighter than a 450cc. 4 stroke. Its just science. The engines are lighter and CC for CC make more power.

The only way 4 strokes can compete is with more CC's or with possibly more cylinder to allow them to rev up to crazy high RPM. At that point you have to worry about valve float.

RiskyRick
2014-06-16, 08:46 PM
Everyone always talks about the lack of torque with a 2 stroke. Its called gearing use it.

Thank you! Why do people have such a hard time dropping a gear or fanning the clutch? Find the hit and stay in it.

Karlen
2014-06-16, 09:52 PM
Squeaky doesn't know how to ride

Squeaky192
2014-06-17, 07:59 AM
I'm probably the slowest person on the site.

Karlen rode my 450 with just blazing speed this weekend.... :lol2:

Squeaky192
2014-06-17, 08:00 AM
Thank you! Why do people have such a hard time dropping a gear or fanning the clutch? Find the hit and stay in it.

Why are you going so slow you have to fan the clutch to be in the powerband? :mrgreen:

bwiencek
2014-06-17, 11:16 AM
I'll throw in my $.02 - you said you want a bike to "Follow your girlfriend on a quad" - to me that means primarily lower speed riding and you say you'll never top out one... I'd be looking at the "lesser" 4-stroke dirt bikes with the de-tuned engines (read more reliable/longer between rebuilds) and even something that may be able to be street licensed - something like the Suzuki DR-Z, Yamaha WR, Kawasaki KLR, etc. They typically use more durable valves and less radical cam timings (less top end valve jobs required and valves will likely be able to be ground vs replaced) and if you only ride occasionally they'll probably never need rebuilding. Plus most of them have electric start available on them - and if you're just looking for a recreational riding all-day deal that's awful nice to be able to throw your leg over and hit the button...

If you're doing super technical trails, wanting to do some racing or something - get the lighter/faster 'racing' off-road bikes.

As for the 2-stoke's: the comments of fouling plugs and such - if you're fouling plugs you need to go back to carb tuning - you're running it too rich somewhere - once set up properly and the engine maintained properly I've run plugs for years on recreational 2-strokes without fouling and just changed them as preventative maintenance and that was lugging them hard down in the rocks and hills of chadwick, and winding them out on the back roads and everything in-between... plus bike will start with 1-2 kicks when cold, 1 kick when warm all the time every time... The comments of rebuild costs: a basic top-end rebuild is cheap (piston/pin, rings, gaskets, pin bearing) but if you score a cylinder or have a loose lower end bearing it gets a LOT more expensive.

cbr_954
2014-06-17, 11:50 AM
I was driving a kx250 the other night. Man that thing is insane, I want a two stroke now.

I lied, after 35 mins I was full throttle through all the gears on it if it didn't stand up lol


I bought my mom a car from Choung yeaterday with my "toy" money. So in gonna have to wait a couple more weeks

MasterXploder
2014-08-21, 04:52 PM
I have rode 2 strokes for years and have had my fair share of 4 stroke experience as well. 4 strokes have really gotten bad ass over the past decade, and they are much easier to go fast on. Much less clutch work, better traction typically, less shifting, etc.

With that said, I don't think I would ever buy a "high strung" 4 stroke as maintenance costs are too great. Something for casual trail riding like an xr400 would be nice; they will run forever.

2 strokes are a breeze to work on. last 2 stroke I had was a yz125, I ran the piss out of that bike. Once you do a topend rebuild a few times it became really easy. I could change the piston out in about 1 1/2 hours. considering an entire top end kit is less than $100 for parts, I would change the piston every 6 months or, even though only once did it ever really seem to need it (worn rings). Compare that to a topend rebuild on a 4 stroke; probably $750 - $1000.