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Old 2012-12-14, 02:05 PM   #26
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Corners you are a stats guy... if pitbulls make up 2M of all dogs in this country vs 500k-800k for other breeds, AND you are misclassifying what is an actual pitbull of course you'll end up with a skewed end result.

EDIT: But MOST importantly, I won't argue they make disproportionately be involved in violence, they are popular in a culture that is more involved in violence and negligence... period.
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Old 2012-12-14, 02:16 PM   #27
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Corners you are a stats guy... if pitbulls make up 2M of all dogs in this country vs 500k-800k for other breeds, AND you are misclassifying what is an actual pitbull of course you'll end up with a skewed end result.

EDIT: But MOST importantly, I won't argue they make disproportionately be involved in violence, they are popular in a culture that is more involved in violence and negligence... period.
I don't doubt that pits get blamed sometimes when the attacking dog is not a true pit. However, just like the report I posted said, "the frequency of pit bull attacks among these worst-in-10,000 cases is so disproportionate that even if half of the attacks in the pit bull category were misattributed, or even if the pit bull category was split three ways, attacks by pit bulls and their closest relatives would still outnumber attacks by any other breed."

I'd still like to see pits registered (all dogs should be registered for that matter), and most importantly, have the owner's carry the proper liability insurance.
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Old 2012-12-14, 02:23 PM   #28
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I'd still like to see pits registered (all dogs should be registered for that matter), and most importantly, have the owner's carry the proper liability insurance.
Agreed on both... all dogs should be registered, and certain breeds should require a liability policy... I'd probably have to pay for one for my chow/retriever mix... and I'm okay with that... however I already do have a $20k rider for him on my homeowners policy.
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Old 2012-12-14, 05:56 PM   #29
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All you have to do is go for a walk or go to a dog park. You don't have to worry about some Labrador Retriever attacking you.
You do have to worry about all pit bulls, German shepherds and Doberman's.
Yes, much of it involves training, but it is also that these dogs have the capability of killing and are big enough and strong enough to do the job.
If you own a pit bull and it kills someone then you should be prosecuted just as if you committed the crime with a gun or your bare hands. You knew the risks of owning this killing machine.
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Old 2012-12-14, 06:11 PM   #30
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All you have to do is go for a walk or go to a dog park. You don't have to worry about some Labrador Retriever attacking you.
You do have to worry about all pit bulls, German shepherds and Doberman's.
Yes, much of it involves training, but it is also that these dogs have the capability of killing and are big enough and strong enough to do the job.
If you own a pit bull and it kills someone then you should be prosecuted just as if you committed the crime with a gun or your bare hands. You knew the risks of owning this killing machine.
sorry. this is bullshit.
I'm not one of those pit breed apologists but saying that you don't have to worry about Labs is bullshit. almost all dogs are capable of taking down kids and many adults. I've had everything from a Bichon Frise to a Rottweiler and from my experience, all dogs are dangerous simply as a function of being an animal.

my current dog is a 45lb boxer mix I got from a shelter when she was 4 weeks old... I've trained her pretty well but I never trained her to pickup rabbits by the neck and shake them to death but that's exactly what she started doing at 3 years old without warning. dogs are animals - they've got thousands of years of genetic coding that are not broken with 2 months of 'puppy and me' training or years of in house discipline.

its exactly when dogs are not treated with the respect of an animal that they are the most dangerous to those around them. obviously some breeds are closer to that wild animal than others, and as crazy as it is to most normal people, some have had it bred back into them but at the base all dogs are dangerous to a degree (especially to kids who don't know any better) and should be treated as such. that's our responsibility as the human side of the equation.
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Old 2012-12-14, 07:01 PM   #31
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Had my hand almost taken off by a Lab in my friends backyard and it was his brother's and his wife's certified dog school trained dog. There's a lady around the Northland that walks her 2 big German Shepards, I had a conversation with her once and approached the dogs without problem and they were very friendly. She said most people were scared to death of them though.
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Old 2012-12-14, 07:15 PM   #32
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I love how some of you guys will yell about how it should be the owners fault not the dogs and then blame a gun for killing someone and not the human.
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Old 2012-12-14, 07:45 PM   #33
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All you have to do is go for a walk or go to a dog park. You don't have to worry about some Labrador Retriever attacking you.
You do have to worry about all pit bulls, German shepherds and Doberman's.
Yes, much of it involves training, but it is also that these dogs have the capability of killing and are big enough and strong enough to do the job.
If you own a pit bull and it kills someone then you should be prosecuted just as if you committed the crime with a gun or your bare hands. You knew the risks of owning this killing machine.
You are a fucking retard.

I've owned 2 Labs, a Doberman, a German Shepherd Mix and a terrier mix. My buddy had a giant Rottweiler, my uncle had 2 as well.

Guess which dog(s) was the most aggressive? Guess which dog(s) caused the most problems? Guess which dog(s) were the best dog(s) of the bunch?

It is not always the breed, nor is it the owner. It is a, wait for it, combination of the two. My lab would have ripped your face off if you came after me. But she would lay down next to you and chill out if you wanted her to.

I've also seen little dogs go nuts around babies because they don't react well to getting their tails ripped off. I can't say that I blame them. Dogs shouldn't probably be introduced to children until they have an understanding of what you can and can't do. That is on the parents/owner. Don't come in here with the same ole rhetoric, makes you look stupid.
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Old 2012-12-14, 09:58 PM   #34
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It never, ever fails. A damn pit bull rips someone apart and everyone feels the need to defend the breed.
Having a pit bull is like having a wild animal like a tiger around. You can say he is "well trained" and "loving," but you never know when he will attack.
Having that breed around your house is the same as having a hand grenade.
Lol... I hope this guys trolling. I have a Pit bull mix with Shari pei best dog ever... Hands down. He doesn't even bark unless you tease him.
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Old 2012-12-14, 10:13 PM   #35
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I'm sure whatever dog you own is A fine dog. I don't doubt everyone's stories of their pit or pit mixes being the nicest sweetest dog. It's probably true. However, presenting one case as an example of the whole is not a representative sample. This is just like me saying I had a Mustang GT with 240,000 miles on the original engine, thus all Mustangs are the best car ever. That's not how this works. You have to look at the big picture. Looking at the data, pitbulls are statistically more dangerous than any breed out there. This is not debatable. This is fact.
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Old 2012-12-14, 10:18 PM   #36
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a good friend of mine has 3 pits. biggest babies i have EVER seen. ive been around a lot of pits and NEVER have i seen a mean one in person. unless you define mean as run up and lick you to death. if they are such bad dogs why do big names in the pet industry say they are good, loyal dogs when incorporated into home life? here is what AKC says about the american staffordshire terrier(one several people call a pit bull)
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The Am Staff is a people-oriented dog that thrives when he is made part of the family and given a job to do. Although friendly, this breed is loyal to his family and will protect them from any threat. His short coat is low-maintenance, but regular exercise and training is necessary.
but i guess they dont know anything about dogs since your statistics say they are terrible dogs. do these statistics take into account where the attacks happen and what the circumstances are? didnt think so. i guess since statistically a larger number of a certain race or ethnicity commit more crimes than others they should all be labeled as dangerous?

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Old 2012-12-14, 11:03 PM   #37
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a good friend of mine has 3 pits. biggest babies i have EVER seen. ive been around a lot of pits and NEVER have i seen a mean one in person. unless you define mean as run up and lick you to death. if they are such bad dogs why do big names in the pet industry say they are good, loyal dogs when incorporated into home life? here is what AKC says about the american staffordshire terrier(one several people call a pit bull)

but i guess they dont know anything about dogs since your statistics say they are terrible dogs. do these statistics take into account where the attacks happen and what the circumstances are? didnt think so. i guess since statistically a larger number of a certain race or ethnicity commit more crimes than others they should all be labeled as dangerous?
No one is saying they're bad dogs. They're just statistically more dangerous. It's what they were designed and bred to do, you can't change that, you can't argue that.

I agree with all of the above suggestions by Corners. Don't ban the breed, but make certain requirements necessary, such as insurance. At least then you'll filter out some of the people that give them a bad name.

You can't keep a Lion without lots of regulation, hoops and red tape because it's a dangerous animal. I don't see anyone arguing against that.
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Old 2012-12-14, 11:42 PM   #38
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lion doesnt equal pit bull. try again with a valid comparison. how are those statistics calculated? do they take into account whether the dog was protecting someone(IE someone on the property who wasnt supposed to be there, someone who approached a family member threateningly, etc)? did someone do something to harm it which caused it fight back? until you can prove that all of these "statistics" are legit 100% purely vicious dog attacks your argument sucks. there are many reasons a dog of any breed would attack someone. i can get online and find statistics twisted about any way i want in any argument i want. that is why the majority of the time arguing with statistics is pointless. the whole designed and bred argument is stupid too. can you prove that all of them were bred to fight? didnt think so. some were, without a doubt, but to claim all of them are "statistically more dangerous" is a joke. like i said, i guess the AKC is a bunch of retards for even daring to say they would make a good family pet.

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Old 2012-12-14, 11:42 PM   #39
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a good friend of mine has 3 pits. biggest babies i have EVER seen. ive been around a lot of pits and NEVER have i seen a mean one in person. unless you define mean as run up and lick you to death. if they are such bad dogs why do big names in the pet industry say they are good, loyal dogs when incorporated into home life? here is what AKC says about the american staffordshire terrier(one several people call a pit bull)

but i guess they dont know anything about dogs since your statistics say they are terrible dogs. do these statistics take into account where the attacks happen and what the circumstances are? didnt think so. i guess since statistically a larger number of a certain race or ethnicity commit more crimes than others they should all be labeled as dangerous?
I'm not a pit fan at all; however, i do love dogs with a few breed exceptions. I'm not sure how your AKC qoute makes any sense. Of course it's going to have a positive spin. Did anyone think the AKC breed description would say "this dog is bred to fight and will try to kill you unannounced"
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Old 2012-12-15, 12:36 AM   #40
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lion doesnt equal pit bull. try again with a valid comparison. how are those statistics calculated? do they take into account whether the dog was protecting someone(IE someone on the property who wasnt supposed to be there, someone who approached a family member threateningly, etc)? did someone do something to harm it which caused it fight back? until you can prove that all of these "statistics" are legit 100% purely vicious dog attacks your argument sucks. there are many reasons a dog of any breed would attack someone. i can get online and find statistics twisted about any way i want in any argument i want. that is why the majority of the time arguing with statistics is pointless. the whole designed and bred argument is stupid too. can you prove that all of them were bred to fight? didnt think so. some were, without a doubt, but to claim all of them are "statistically more dangerous" is a joke. like i said, i guess the AKC is a bunch of retards for even daring to say they would make a good family pet.
More excuses.

You're right. Statistical data in this case is crap. 60% of human fatalities caused by pits is irrelevant. In other news, 16 year old males are the best drivers ever, and motorcycle helmets are dangerous because they block my field of vision. Fuck you statistics!!!!
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Old 2012-12-15, 12:43 AM   #41
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more excuses? i asked you to back up your statistics and questioned how they were obtained. but i can see you dont care to answer that part of the post. and if you dont want to admit that you can find statistics to play both sides of the story you are retarded. so now 60% of human fatalities are caused by pits???? thats more than cancer or any disease we better kill all of them and rid the earth of that scum...
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Old 2012-12-15, 12:47 AM   #42
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I'm not a pit fan at all; however, i do love dogs with a few breed exceptions. I'm not sure how your AKC qoute makes any sense. Of course it's going to have a positive spin. Did anyone think the AKC breed description would say "this dog is bred to fight and will try to kill you unannounced"
do you really think that organization would recommend bringing a dog thats so dangerous into a family environemnt? surely if the dog was really as dangerous as others make it out to be they would warn people not to bring into a family environment since it will at some point freak out for no reason and attack you/your wife/your children?
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Old 2012-12-15, 01:01 AM   #43
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more excuses? i asked you to back up your statistics and questioned how they were obtained. but i can see you dont care to answer that part of the post. and if you dont want to admit that you can find statistics to play both sides of the story you are retarded. so now 60% of human fatalities are caused by pits???? thats more than cancer or any disease we better kill all of them and rid the earth of that scum...
FYI, we're talking about dog bites.

I've asked before, so if you have any data to support you claims, please present them. Opinions or claims are not data. PLEASE present your facts. Let's have a factual debate. I welcome it.
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Old 2012-12-15, 01:27 AM   #44
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so you still cant answer my question, cool. thats all i needed to know. i dont see where i threw out any statistics so i have nothing to prove, but you cant seem to comprehend that ive asked you about your numbers and how they are obtained. so since you either cant or refuse to answer that your "facts" are in reality not facts at all. have a nice night
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Old 2012-12-15, 02:44 AM   #45
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so you still cant answer my question, cool. thats all i needed to know. i dont see where i threw out any statistics so i have nothing to prove, but you cant seem to comprehend that ive asked you about your numbers and how they are obtained. so since you either cant or refuse to answer that your "facts" are in reality not facts at all. have a nice night
I see you haven't opened the document I posted. I can't make you read.

I see no matter what you're not going to believe the reality of the situation no more so can you prove to an old farmer who's never worn a seatbelt that doing so may save his life. All I ask is you step back and look. The answers are right in front of your face.

You also said you can use stats to prove both sides about pits. All I ask is you back up your claim.

I see the pit "problem" as not much different than owning a swimming pool. Swimming pools are statistically more dangerous than having a gun in the house. And guess what? I have a swimming pool, guns, and a 50 lb dog. I have the most dangerous house in the world, right? The difference is, I'm not going to sit here and tell you all these things are harmless and ignore the reality of the risks. Instead, I have a gun safe, ammo box, a splash alarm, a safety cover than holds 2,000 lbs, a good home owner's insurance policy, and my dog is a poodle. I have respect for these items and treat them as such not ignoring everything. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I've met gun owner and not a single person I know has shot themselves, so I'll just leave a loaded gun in my nightstand for my kids to find. Nope. I also don't know anyone who has drowned, so I'll leave my cover off and gate unlocked. Doing so is foolish. Same with a pit. Ignoring the reality that statistically they are the most dangerous dog breed and not taking any procautions is just plain dumb.
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Old 2012-12-15, 08:23 AM   #46
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i opened your links and looked at them. they dont say how their numbers were obtained. they dont give circumstances. i never said buy a pit and let it roam the city freely. there is a huge difference in what you said and what you are trying to make it look like i said. i never said do anything any stupid like leave loaded guns lay around for kids to play with or not have a gate and cover on your pool. i love how your comparisons of owning a pit is to other extremes. that tells me i cant prove anything to you if i wanted to. as long as you think a owning a pit is comparable to having a pet lion or leaving loaded hand guns lay around it would be a waste of time for anyone to try and prove anything because you would brush it off as one sided, skewed data. i will believe my personal experience over some statistics i found on the internet any day(within reason). i know mean dogs are out there. i also know that if these dogs were such a mean breed that the chances of me seeing at least one that is mean out of all the ones i have been around should be pretty good correct? i treat all dogs with respect because id rather not be bitten by any dog, regardless of how dangerous someone claims or how nice someone claims it is.

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Old 2012-12-15, 09:38 AM   #47
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I would have no issue getting a full bred pitbull. I don't know if I would leave my kid unattended around any kind of dog. Anything can happen.

I love how this always turns into a pitbull issue. There are much more aggressive dogs out there. Dalmatians are very aggressive dogs. #justsaying
Poodles are also very aggressive dogs.

Fucking hate poodles.
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Old 2012-12-15, 09:44 AM   #48
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I'm sure whatever dog you own is A fine dog. I don't doubt everyone's stories of their pit or pit mixes being the nicest sweetest dog. It's probably true. However, presenting one case as an example of the whole is not a representative sample. This is just like me saying I had a Mustang GT with 240,000 miles on the original engine, thus all Mustangs are the best car ever. That's not how this works. You have to look at the big picture. Looking at the data, pitbulls are statistically more dangerous than any breed out there. This is not debatable. This is fact.
Statistics do not give causibility, only correlation. Black people are statistically a lot more dangerous than asians, but the reality is it has nothing to do with their race. it has to do with a lot of other aspects within our culture. Just something to keep in mind

*not arguing with you or directing this comment at you, just making a general statement about using statistics to come to conclusions.
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Old 2012-12-15, 11:59 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Hardcore97 View Post
lion doesnt equal pit bull. try again with a valid comparison.
Ok, Coyote and Coyote hybrids, Wolves and wolf hybrids. Is that a better argument? Both these animals and pit bulls are bred for violence, one for survival, one for sport. Wolf and hybrid owners know that while they may be docile and loving, that instinct can take over at any time and they're more than capable of causing injury or death.

It's the same with Pit Bulls. They have that instinct and it can take over at any time. I once heard a story of an avid pit bull owner keeping two for years together with absolutely no sign of aggression and one day he came home and found one dead and both covered in blood.

It can happen at any time for any number of reasons.
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Old 2012-12-15, 12:12 PM   #50
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Keep in mind folks, that in this particular incident, we are talking about a 'rescue dog' that was a 'pit bull mix'.

The trouble here is that we have no idea where that dog came from. We just don't know how it was treated prior to finding it's last home. This is significant, because when threatened, by an adult or a two year old, the dog will go into "fight or flight" mode and revert to whatever it learned as a puppy.

Many, many people give these dogs what I like to call the "Whiskey Tango" treatment. "Look at me, I have a bad ass pitbull, therefore I am bad ass". They do everything in their power to bring out the "mean" in these dogs. Then they get arrested for meth or some shit like that and the dog goes to a shelter, to get adopted by an unsuspecting dog lover. Recipie for disaster.

The difference here between a pitbull and any other dog, is not really the instinctual temprament so much, but a little perhaps. The real issue is
A) the physical capabilities of the dog. A bite from a pitbull compared to a bite from a large poodle is going to have far more severe consequences. The dog is just more capable of inflicting grave harm.
B) socialization- see 'whiskey tango' above.

It's just that if one wants to own one of these dogs, they need to understand that it has a great capacity to inflict harm purely due to it's physiology, and it has a temperament that when faced with a "fight or flight" threat, it will fight.

So it comes down to responsible ownership. These dogs need owners that not only nurture the dog properly, but know what can set the dog off in terms of threats. The owner needs to know how to socialize the animal correctly, and how to avoid the triggers.

All that said, unless you know how to re-socialize a dog...If you're looking for a "rescue dog" the pitbull might not be the one you want.
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