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Unread 2015-08-30, 02:29 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by TAILWAG View Post
This is beyond f'd up.
What an evil human being.
The extent some people go to get attention is horrifying. I am surprised LifeTime hasn't made a movie about this yet.
Give it time... I'm sure SOMEONE will eventually make a 'Based On a True Story' movie about this.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 10:21 AM   #27
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Michelle Carter text suicide trial verdict: Guilty


TAUNTON, Mass. -- A young Massachusetts woman accused of sending her boyfriend dozens of text messages urging him to kill himself when they were teenagers was found guiltyof involuntary manslaughter Friday.
Michelle Carter was charged in the death of Conrad Roy III. Carter, then 17, cajoled Roy to kill himself in July 2014 with a series of texts and phone calls, prosecutors allege. Roy died when his pickup truck filled with carbon monoxide in a store parking lot in Fairhaven. After he exited the truck, Carter told him to "get back in," prosecutors said.
Carter waived her right to a jury trial, so Juvenile Court Judge Lawrence Moniz decided the case. He began deliberating late Tuesday after closing arguments concluded.
While Roy took "significant actions of his own" to take his own life, Carter's instruction to get back in the truck constituted wanton and reckless conduct, the judge said. Even though she knew he was in the truck, she didn't take action to help him by calling the police or family, Moniz said.
"She called no one and finally she did not issue a simple additional instruction -- get out of the truck," Moniz said.
Carter cried as the judge read his verdict.
Play Video
Woman accused of encouraging suicide texted friends "I heard him die," witnesses testify


Prosecutors argued at her trial that the text messages support their claim that Carter caused Roy's death by "wantonly and recklessly" helping him poison himself. They allege Carter pushed Roy to commit suicide because she was desperate for attention from classmates, reports CBS Boston, and wanted to play the role of a grieving girlfriend.
Carter and Roy met in Florida in 2012 while visiting relatives. Their relationship largely consisted of text messages and emails.
"You're finally going to be happy in heaven. No more pain. It's okay to be scared and it's normal. I mean, you're about to die," Carter wrote in one message.
Her texts later became more insistent after Roy appeared to delay his plan.
"I thought you wanted to do this. The time is right and you're ready __ just do it babe," she wrote.
In another text sent the day Roy died, Carter wrote: "You can't think about it. You just have to do it. You said you were gonna do it. Like I don't get why you aren't."


Roy, 18, had a history of depression and had attempted suicide in 2012, taking an overdose of Tylenol. Roy's mother testified at Carter's trial that Roy seemed to improve after he began taking medication and getting counseling. He graduated from high school in 2014 and had plans to attend college, she said.
Carter, then 17, also had struggled with depression, as well as anorexia, and had been prescribed antidepressants.
Carter's lawyer, Joseph Cataldo, said Roy was intent on killing himself and took Carter along on his "sad journey." Cataldo said Carter was struggling with "baggage" of her own at the time.
A psychiatrist who testified for the defense said Carter was suffering from side effects from an anti-depressant she was taking.
Cataldo said Carter became "overwhelmed" by Roy's suicidal thinking after she initially tried to talk him out of it and urged him to get professional help.
Play Video
Videos now key evidence in texting suicide trial


"It was his constant wearing on Michelle Carter for over a year and a half of 'I want to take my own life,'" Cataldo said.
Cataldo said Roy chose to take his own life, reports CBS Boston, and Carter can't be held responsible for it.
"It's sad, it's tragic," Cataldo said. "But it's just not a homicide."
He pointed to a text to Carter in which Roy wrote, "There is nothing anyone can do to make me want to live."
The case has been closely watched in the legal community and widely shared on social media. In Massachusetts, an involuntary manslaughter charge can be brought when someone causes the death of another person when engaging in reckless or wanton conduct that creates a high degree of likelihood of substantial harm.
Daniel Medwed, a law professor at Northeastern University, said the judge had a difficult task in determining whether Carter's actions rose to the level of manslaughter. There is no Massachusetts law against encouraging someone to kill themselves.
Medwed said the judge could consider Carter "morally blameworthy," but "moral blame doesn't always equal legal accountability."
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Unread 2017-06-16, 11:02 AM   #28
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Is this where our society is really headed? No one is responsible for anything they do? There is no doubt this girl is a total scumbag POS, but this seems like an awfully slippery slope.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 12:21 PM   #29
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She got off easy on that charge. Fucking cunt.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 12:30 PM   #30
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She got off easy on that charge. Fucking cunt.
Legally, this sets a very, very scary precedent.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 12:33 PM   #31
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Legally, this sets a very, very scary precedent.
How so? I see nothing scary or slippery about this ruling.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 12:46 PM   #32
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How so? I see nothing scary or slippery about this ruling.
I think it's a stretch... but there COULD be a slippery aspect.

Taken very broadly, someone could see this ruling and say the verbal actions of one person are enough to charge them with manslaughter. Without context that seems wrong to me.

In reality, the law does not allow for this to happen... so I don't think it's mildly wet, let alone slippery. Bitch deserves jail for sure.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 01:41 PM   #33
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I disagree.

While I certainly think she rotten, I don't think she is criminally negligent for telling the guy to off himself. It's horrible, no way around it. But I'm sure I've been told to off myself more times than I could possibly remember, but I don't think anyone should be charged with it, if I did. She want even present. She doesn't have any type of formal training (I would probably feel much different if this was a psychologist/psychiatrist/etc).

The slippery slope is this will no doubt be used in future cases as a precedent.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 02:31 PM   #34
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I hope that girl gets the help she clearly needs. Jesus fucking Christ that is so absolutely horrid.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 02:47 PM   #35
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I hope that girl gets the help she clearly needs. Jesus fucking Christ that is so absolutely horrid.
You think she is responsible?
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Unread 2017-06-16, 03:01 PM   #36
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You think she is responsible?
I think that it is clear that she needs professional help by the way she acted.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 03:25 PM   #37
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I think that it is clear that she needs professional help by the way she acted.
I agree with your post 100%, but that's not the question.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 04:29 PM   #38
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I agree with your post 100%, but that's not the question.
I'm not a lawyer or familiar enough with the law to make a determination.

In my ignorant opinion, I think manslaughter seems more appropriate than murder.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 04:44 PM   #39
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I think they got it right. I would be surprised if she got more than a couple years in jail though.
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Unread 2017-06-16, 09:18 PM   #40
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You think she is responsible?
Do you think he would still be alive if she hadn't constantly encouraged him to do it?
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Unread 2017-06-16, 11:54 PM   #41
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she will probably do 0-30 days in jail and a couple years of probation. fits the crime. i agree the bigger deal is that she needs mental help though. i'm sure the suicide fucked her up even more too.
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Unread 2017-06-17, 07:15 AM   #42
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Do you think he would still be alive if she hadn't constantly encouraged him to do it?
And this is obviously where it gets murky.

From my understanding, of the case and the law, she is not criminally negligent by the letter of the law.

The answer to your question is obviously a hypothetical that can never be answered. Like I mentioned, it's not as if she was a medical professional denying care, or a malpractice issue.

I can't stress enough, I think this girl is a scumbag. But I am not comfortable with her being convicted with what seems to be a "feel good" decision, if that makes sense.

There is a case in MO that is along these lines and I'm curious to see how it will play out. It's not quite the same, but there are similarities to this one.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dairy-queen...ry?id=45498992

There was also a case a few years ago, also in MO, about an adult "catfishing" a younger girl (megan meier) and humiliating her, then the girl committed suicide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier

I think in the case of Megan, there could be a very strong case made that the adult was negligent in the death of Megan.

Both of the cases are in the same vein of this case, but a tad different. I'm just using them as examples of similar cases.

Bottom line is that it is horrendous .Reading the texts gives me the willies that someone could do that. But I don't agree with the legal decision.
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Unread 2017-06-17, 10:04 AM   #43
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I agree that the legal-ness of it is very murky but my question was in response to her being responsible for his death. I have no doubt he'd still be alive as she had to convince him several times to do it and the manner in which she did was highly manipulative and cunning in a very frightening way. Being a teenager, depressed and vulnerable like that and having someone close to you who you're sharing your feelings with, repeatedly telling you to commit suicide and offering reasons and rationalizations to do it, that's a very powerful thing. I'm not sure what I think of the conviction as far as the precedent it sets but she is definitely responsible for his death in a major way.
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Unread 2017-06-17, 10:31 AM   #44
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I agree that the legal-ness of it is very murky but my question was in response to her being responsible for his death. I have no doubt he'd still be alive as she had to convince him several times to do it and the manner in which she did was highly manipulative and cunning in a very frightening way. Being a teenager, depressed and vulnerable like that and having someone close to you who you're sharing your feelings with, repeatedly telling you to commit suicide and offering reasons and rationalizations to do it, that's a very powerful thing. I'm not sure what I think of the conviction as far as the precedent it sets but she is definitely responsible for his death in a major way.
This is tough.

Because I think we both know that someone who is going to commit suicide, will find a way or reason to do it. Do I think she clearly encouraged it? 100%. Do I think she is legally liable for it? I don't think so.

My concern is at what point is it NOT another person's fault. I've been picked on and called names, told to kill myself and whatnot. But I can't see someone being charged as a result of it.
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Unread 2017-06-19, 01:00 PM   #45
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As I said prior... the law doesn't just take one incident of something, make it precedent, and allow it to be used/abused in all other examples.

Good write-up here:

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/mi...n-not-stretch/

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“But my Free Speech!! This is going to lead to a slippery slope where mean people are convicted just for being mean!”

Wrong again. There is no bright line legal precedent established by the finding in this case. As the judge in this case states upon denial of the motion to dismiss the indictment, “We need not—and indeed cannot—define where on the spectrum between speech and physical acts involuntary manslaughter must fall. Instead, the inquiry must be made on a case-by-case basis.”

Ahem… Case-by-case basis. We have a legal system that involves judges and juries for a reason. There is the law, and then there is the person who determines the facts of the case viewed in light of the relevant law. Whether bench or jury trial, the specific facts are taken into consideration, and an analysis is made as to whether or not those facts fit the elements of the crime for which the defendant was indicted. Then a judgment is put forth. The existence of a jury as an adjudicator of facts prevents dangerous slippery sloped in this case, as future cases can distinguish what is manslaughter from what is simply someone being mean.
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Unread 2017-06-19, 01:10 PM   #46
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As I said prior... the law doesn't just take one incident of something, make it precedent, and allow it to be used/abused in all other examples.
Does that mean the next time a police man is killed all the people who were at the rally chanting "Pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon." will now be charged for murder?

Or will this ruling be selective?
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Unread 2017-06-19, 02:29 PM   #47
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I disagree with that article RK.

Precedent can hold an enormous amount of weight, particularly in circumstances where there muddy waters like this case.
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Unread 2017-06-20, 10:56 AM   #48
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This is tough.

Because I think we both know that someone who is going to commit suicide, will find a way or reason to do it. Do I think she clearly encouraged it? 100%. Do I think she is legally liable for it? I don't think so.

My concern is at what point is it NOT another person's fault. I've been picked on and called names, told to kill myself and whatnot. But I can't see someone being charged as a result of it.
While I find the case/verdict odd, here is why I don't necessarily disagree with the verdict.

She was a person of influence and really had two choices to make. She could have got him help (gone there herself, called his folks, the police, etc.), or she could have, and did choose to actively make the situation worse. She may have not actively caused his death, but she did about everything she could to make the situation worse (and then tried to cover her ass with text messages days later), showing a complete indifference for his life in essentially asking him to kill himself.
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Unread 2017-08-03, 09:45 AM   #49
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Teen who encouraged boyfriend to kill himself in texts to be sentenced for involuntary manslaughter






TAUNTON, Mass. — A juvenile court judge on Thursday is expected to hear directly from Michelle Carter, the now 20-year-old woman found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the suicide death of her boyfriend, Conrad Roy III.
It was Carter’s own words in text messages that helped seal her conviction. Hundreds of her text messages presented as evidence over six days of testimony in June convinced a Massachusetts judge of her guilt in a criminal case that hinged largely on the teenage couple’s intimate cellphone exchanges.
Bristol County Juvenile Court Judge Lawrence Moniz will sentence the 20-year-old Thursday. The hearing is scheduled for 1:00 p.m. CT. Carter faces up to 20 years in prison, though one expert said such a lengthy sentence is unlikely.
“She will be given little, if any, jail time, in my view,” said Joey Jackson, a criminal defense attorney and CNN legal analyst.
“The crime was horrific, but based upon her youth, I believe the judge’s sentence will focus more on rehabilitation than on punishment. Though some punishment would be appropriate — and I think the judge also needs to deter copy cats.”
Conrad Roy III, 18, poisoned himself by inhaling carbon monoxide in his pickup truck. His body was found July 13, 2014, a day after his suicide in his parked truck in a Kmart parking lot in Fairhaven, nearly 40 miles from his home.
Judge Moniz heard the case after Carter waived her right to a jury trial. She was tried in juvenile court because she was 17 at the time of the crime.
“She instructs Mr. Roy to get back into the truck well-knowing of all of the feelings that he has exchanged with her; his ambiguities, his fears, his concerns. This court finds that in instructing Mr. Roy to get back into the truck constituted… wanton and reckless conduct by Miss Carter creating a situation where there is a high degree of likelihood that substantial harm would result to Mr. Roy,” Judge Lawrence Moniz said when he announced her guilty verdict.

“She did not notify his mother or his sister even though just several days before that she had requested their phone numbers from Mr. Roy… She called no one. And finally, she did not issue a simple additional instruction, ‘Get out of the truck.’ Consequently, this court has found that the Commmonwealth has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Miss Carter’s actions and also her failure to act where she had a self created duty to Mr. Roy since she had put him into that toxic environment constituted each and all wanton and reckless conduct,” the judge continued.
The prosecution asked the judge to revoke bail, but the judge ruled that she could remain free on bail until her sentencing.

Conrad Roy and Michelle Carter

Carter went from offering “words of kindness and love” to aggressively encouraging Roy via text message to carry out longtime threats to commit suicide, Bristol Assistant District Attorney Katie Rayburn told the court.
“It got to the point that he was apologizing to her, … apologizing to her for not being dead yet,” Rayburn said in her closing argument.
Rayburn reminded the judge of text messages in which Carter encouraged Roy to get back in the truck, where he eventually died of carbon monoxide poisoning. In text messages to a friend, she described hearing his finals words and breaths on the phone.
The case — which could prompt the drawing up of new laws to deal with the behavior highlighted in the trial — has been closely watched by legal analysts.
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