80% of Economic Gains From Trump's Tax Plan Will End Up Going To Foreigners

[jwdb1fish]

Originally Posted by Oblique

Well I wasnt specifically referring to you but now that you mention it, you do seem to be the representation of the left to some of the conservatives on here or at least their idea of the left that they're projecting onto you. So I guess the shoe fits.

It fits

[Oblique]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...bama-and-trump

Rigged: New Report Details How Combined $5.1 Trillion in Tax Cuts by Bush, Obama, and Trump Went Mostly to Nation's Richest
"When people demand specifics on how to pay for expansions to social insurance, income supports, and public investments, seems like part of the answer is just 'we could stop doing this.'"

With $5.1 trillion, the U.S. government could provide healthcare for all Americans and make public colleges tuition free with cash to spare, but a report released on Wednesday by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP) shows that the past three presidents have instead opted to send this vast sum of money to the richest Americans through massive tax cuts.

Titled "Federal Tax Changes in the Bush, Obama, and Trump Years," the new analysis finds that tax cuts enacted since 2000 have cost the U.S. government $5.1 trillion in revenue, "with nearly two-thirds of that flowing to the richest fifth of Americans."

Thanks in large part to President Donald Trump's $1.5 trillion tax cut package that was signed into law last December—which will send 83 percent of its benefits to the top one percent—"the tally of tax cuts will grow to $10.6 trillion" by 2025 and "nearly $2 trillion of this amount will have gone to the richest one percent," the report estimates.

At a time when tens of millions of Americans are suffering from "massive levels of deprivation" and "appalling rates" of poverty, the tax cuts rammed through by George W. Bush, extended in part by Barack Obama, and built upon by Trump "have mostly benefited those who are least in need of help," Steve Wamhoff, director of federal policy at ITEP and the lead author of the new analysis, argued in a statement on Wednesday.

"For example, the richest one percent received more benefits than the bottom 60 percent," Wamhoff added. "It's worth asking whether this is the result most Americans wanted from their lawmakers."

Polling data suggests that it is not. As Common Dreams reported, a poll published last month found that just 37 percent of registered voters support Trump's massive tax cuts, which America's largest corporations are using to buy back their own stock rather than boost worker pay.





While Trump's tax cuts are the latest and most egregious example of tax policy that rewards the rich at the expense of everyone else, ITEP executive director Alan Essig notes that this upward redistribution of wealth is part of a broad trend of soaring inequality that consecutive administrations have fueled.

"These policies have transferred trillions in wealth to those who were already rich," Essig said of tax changes under Bush, Obama, and Trump. "Annual income for the top 20 percent of households has grown since 2000. But it essentially has remained stagnant for families in the middle-income quintile and declined for poor and low-income households."

Link to the report.

https://itep.org/wp-content/uploads/...rump-Years.pdf

[jwdb1fish]

^^Love this.


Lots of extra money in my pocket!

[Oblique]

Originally Posted by jwdb1fish

^^Love this.


Lots of extra money in my pocket!

Just wait until that recession hits.

[jwdb1fish]

Originally Posted by Oblique

Just wait until that recession hits.

I’ve survived them just fine.

I’m in a pretty bulletproof situation as I wind down the last ten years of my career. The market will indeed correct itself at some point.

[Oblique]

Originally Posted by jwdb1fish

I’ve survived them just fine.

I’m in a pretty bulletproof situation as I wind down the last ten years of my career. The market will indeed correct itself at some point.

Fuck the rest of us though right? It's not going to correct itself, it's going to crash.

[jwdb1fish]

Originally Posted by Oblique

Fuck the rest of us though right? It's not going to correct itself, it's going to crash.

If you haven’t done your due diligence with your income and personal finances then that’s on you.

[Oblique]

Originally Posted by jwdb1fish

If you haven’t done your due diligence with your income and personal finances then that’s on you.

You can't be serious can you? I'm not even talking about me. I've been homeless sleeping on the street in the snow, rain and 100 degree heat, I'll be fine.

You think every single person in America should have a big bank account and if they don't, it's their own fault? Let them extract all the money they want out of America because it's a 20 year olds or a struggling single mom's own fault for not saving enough money? That's really your position?

[jwdb1fish]

Originally Posted by Oblique

You can't be serious can you? I'm not even talking about me. I've been homeless sleeping on the street in the snow, rain and 100 degree heat, I'll be fine.

You think every single person in America should have a big bank account and if they don't, it's their own fault? Let them extract all the money they want out of America because it's a 20 year olds or a struggling single mom's own fault for not saving enough money? That's really your position?

Dude. Pound sand.

I've been there, and done without for my family and kids more than I'd like to admit. Is everyone's current situation entirely their fault, absolutely not. But anyone...and I mean anyone can dig their way out in our current system.

I get that our system can't function without winners and losers, but in my humble opinion the difference between being a have and a have not is all about choices in the vast majority of situations.

[DIYAutoRepair]

Considering the bottom 50pct dont pay federal income tax i wouldnt expect them to get much back.

[Oblique]

Originally Posted by jwdb1fish

Dude. Pound sand.

I've been there, and done without for my family and kids more than I'd like to admit. Is everyone's current situation entirely their fault, absolutely not. But anyone...and I mean anyone can dig their way out in our current system.

I get that our system can't function without winners and losers, but in my humble opinion the difference between being a have and a have not is all about choices in the vast majority of situations.

We're not talking about in a regular functioning economy though. in which I would basically agree with you. I'm talking about when a recession or crash happens. Which only happen because someone is engineering it to happen and allowing the real leeches of the world to suck more and more money out of our country and into their own pockets.

[Oblique]

Originally Posted by DIYAutoRepair

Considering the bottom 50pct dont pay federal income tax i wouldnt expect them to get much back.

You don't see a problem with a wider and wider wealth gap just as far as the structure and stability of society itself goes? There's only one place that leads.

[DIYAutoRepair]

Are you recomending we redistribute wealth through the income taxsystem.

[Oblique]

Originally Posted by DIYAutoRepair

Are you recomending we redistribute wealth through the income taxsystem.

I'm recommending we don't redistribute it to the wealthy who just suck our country dry and horde it all for themselves while our President lies to us about how great it will be for the country and our citizens. Stop answering my questions with your own questions for once and answer mine instead of avoiding them like you always do.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/inv...uts/index.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/worker-...-boost-stocks/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1K22KH

http://time.com/money/5267940/compan...tock-buybacks/

http://time.com/money/5300137/nabe-recession-2020/

[DIYAutoRepair]

Since the poor dont pay imto the federal coffers how is it givimg money from the poor to the wealthy.

What you are sayi g is to use the government to redistribute wealth fro the wealthy to the poor to close the wealth gap.

I thik its better to get the goverment off peoples backs ad the backs of compaies ad let the hard working people close the gap o their own.

[Oblique]

Originally Posted by DIYAutoRepair

Since the poor dont pay imto the federal coffers how is it givimg money from the poor to the wealthy.

Can you think for yourself instead of just repeating Fox News talking points? It's taking TAX money that is everyone's and giving it to people who aren't going to do a damn thing with it which will cause ALL of us problems. People who have more than enough.

What you are sayi g is to use the government to redistribute wealth fro the wealthy to the poor to close the wealth gap.

I'm saying let's think about the consequences to society as a whole and people who aren't well off at all before we give a flying fuck about the morality of whether or not a millionaire gets to have a couple million more.

Why not have zero taxes? That would be great wouldn't it? I'm sure society would work like a well oiled machine. No roads, no police, no firemen, no public schools. Just a world run by the greediest people in the world who take as much as they can because they can. Sounds like Utopia.

You wonder why there are people too lazy work and don't want to contribute? Because collectively America has a "Fuck you, I got mine" mentality. That goes from the wealthiest, greediest, asshole guy all the way at the top, to the poor, able bodied, excuse making free loader all the way at the bottom. I got mine, fuck everyone else.

I thik its better to get the goverment off peoples backs ad the backs of compaies ad let the hard working people close the gap o their own.

Your plan is working wonderfully isn't it? When the whole thing crashes, I bet you'll blame it on all the poor lazy people and illegal immigrants instead of the psychopaths that orchestrated the whole thing.

I think it's better if we don't allow corporate and special interests to dictate how our government runs and create schemes to steal all of our money. Still waiting for all that wealth to trickle down. Annnnnytime now.

[DIYAutoRepair]

Originally Posted by Oblique

It's taking TAX money that is everyone's and giving it to people who aren't going to do a damn thing with it which will cause ALL of us problems. People who have more than enough.

OK, so what is enough money that people should be able to have, put a dollar figure on it?

That federal income tax money was confiscated by the government from the upper 50%, so it didn't come from everybody.

Most people in the upper 50% did a lot of work and made a lot of sacrifices to get there that those who are in the bottom 50% didn't do or make.

What is the morality in someone who works 40hrs/wk while going to school to earn a degree. Then works their way up the company ranks holding off on a family until they have established themselves securely in a 6 figure job.

Taking that persons money and giving it to someone who.

Never had the initiative to work a 40hr/wk, get an education but chose to have a child out of wedlock?

[Oblique]

Originally Posted by DIYAutoRepair

OK, so what is enough money that people should be able to have, put a dollar figure on it?

As much that helps the economy and doesn't march it towards a crash. I'm not an economist but that seems like a decent bar to set. I'm sure someone much smarter than me could figure out the details if the whole thing wasn't tainted by the greediest people on the planet.

That federal income tax money was confiscated by the government from the upper 50%, so it didn't come from everybody.

Most people in the upper 50% did a lot of work and made a lot of sacrifices to get there that those who are in the bottom 50% didn't do or make.

What is the morality in someone who works 40hrs/wk while going to school to earn a degree. Then works their way up the company ranks holding off on a family until they have established themselves securely in a 6 figure job.

Taking that persons money and giving it to someone who.

Never had the initiative to work a 40hr/wk, get an education but chose to have a child out of wedlock?

They are your fellow citizens. Maybe we should work together to figure out why people are poor and figure out ways to lift them out of poverty instead of just telling them to go fuck themselves. You have ZERO clue how and why people are in the circumstances they are in and think that since you can do it, they can do it too. Not everyone is the same. I was homeless sleeping on the street. Never took a dime of government money. I managed to get a night stocking job and would get off work to at like 5am to go find some place to sleep in the woods or something everyday. If anyone ever helped me, I made sure and gave them something in return. I'm not going to get into details but I went from being a completely naive, anxious homeless kid at 18, to to making a decent living for myself, living in my own house.

I don't ask for handouts, I hate asking for ANY kind of help because I was made to feel like a burden and ashamed of it, like it made me weak. But you know what? Sometimes people need help and they shouldn't be ashamed of asking for it from selfish cock suckers who can only see life from their own point of view and can't understand the horrible shit some people go through in their lives through no fault of their own that completely warps their ability to function in life. How about we figure out how to help these people instead of ridiculing them because that obviously isn't fixing the issue. Almost seems like conservatives don't really want to fix the issue because these people are one more group they can look down on and feel better than while scapegoating them for all the problems in the country.

Speaking as someone who works 40 hours a week, was homeless and never took government money, if my tax dollars can help someone who really needs it, that makes me feel good. I'm glad I can help someone out. As far as it going to "freeloaders"? I feel sorry for them. Their lives aren't this "welfare queen" life of luxury you guys seem to think it is. These people need therapy, life skills, social skills, work skills. How do you think someone like that gets created and molded? You think these people are happy? You think they want to be miserable free loaders with no future?

[DIYAutoRepair]

Originally Posted by Oblique

As far as it going to "freeloaders"? I feel sorry for them. Their lives aren't this "welfare queen" life of luxury you guys seem to think it is. These people need therapy, life skills, social skills, work skills. How do you think someone like that gets created and molded? You think these people are happy? You think they want to be miserable free loaders with no future?

But just handing them money does none of that, it just keeps them dependent and voting for more hand-outs (Dems).

Believe it or not, many are happy just existing on other peoples money.

Most people with a good work ethic and initiative do what you did and improve their situation.

About that $$ figure to cap every ones income, $200K?

Once you put a figure out there, people making less will say it's to much, people making more will say it's not enough.

Let the free market decide what people are worth.

[mild83]

I will say this, the income gap is mildly concerning to me. I’m not sure what the solution is, but when it stretches to extremes, it will inevitably lead to some inequalities which in turn, could have dire consequences.

I think there are probably a lot of minor things that could be tweaked (mostly taxes and SS) that could/should be altered. SS should give people some peace of mind for retirement. And in its current state, it doesn’t.

[Ricerking13]

Originally Posted by mild83

I will say this, the income gap is mildly concerning to me. I’m not sure what the solution is, but when it stretches to extremes, it will inevitably lead to some inequalities which in turn, could have dire consequences.

I think there are probably a lot of minor things that could be tweaked (mostly taxes and SS) that could/should be altered. SS should give people some peace of mind for retirement. And in its current state, it doesn’t.

Yep. I used to believe it was purely wrong to punish the wealthy... but we can't sustain it forever. I will NOT advocate for massive wealth redistribution... but I like the Obama tax on the wealthiest, I like removing the earnings cap on SS and moving it to start back again at like $250k for individuals and $500k for couples. I am okay with a progressively increasing tax bracket system.

I don't like what we're putting into place in Arizona, which is targeting those that make $250k individual/500k couple... and doubling their income tax state-wide... and taking those funds for schools.

Everyone should pay into schools, and you can adjust rates up... but it feels too directly robbing from the rich to fix budgeting issues and school shortages.

[Oblique]

Originally Posted by DIYAutoRepair

But just handing them money does none of that, it just keeps them dependent and voting for more hand-outs (Dems).

Yea which is why I said we should figure out ways to help lift them out of that situation. You should seriously carefully read every sentence when I respond to you. It would make conversing together so much easier.

Funny you should mention (Dems) and handout since the Red states (GOP) are the ones who take the most handouts. Bunch of freeloading pieces of shit if you ask me. Am I doing this right?

http://www.businessinsider.com/red-s...ernment-2015-7

Believe it or not, many are happy just existing on other peoples money.

Really? Do you know any? Do they have good lives? Married? Have kids? Good relationships with people? I sincerely doubt it. If they do, then that is extremely rare.

Most people with a good work ethic and initiative do what you did and improve their situation.

And what if someone doesn't have these things? Or they don't have any kind of skills or they're just fucked because they had drug addicted parents who beat them and each other every night? What if they got mentally warped to not believe they could ever do anything because they had piece shit parents who downloaded their bullshit into their kids heads? You don't know what any given person has been through in their life. Stop judging them and try extending a hand instead. One that pulls them up. Try talking to someone in these situations and listen to their stories. Sometimes people get mentally trapped and they didn't even know it was possible to escape the situation they're in. It's called learned helplessness.

Why don't you start considering yourself blessed to have what you have instead of thinking you simply earned it all yourself. You didn't. You got the luck of the draw in some way shape or form to be where you are at. I'm sure you work hard and you've overcame your own hardships and I'm not minimizing those whatsoever but you could have been born to a drug addicted single mom who sold her pussy to get high. You could have been born in a million other situations where you would have turned out just like these people you're judging. But you didn't and you're lucky for it. Just like I'm lucky that I was born with some sort innate intelligence and sense of what's right and wrong or else I could be on a very different path morally right now and I'd probably be in prison.

About that $$ figure to cap every ones income, $200K?

Once you put a figure out there, people making less will say it's to much, people making more will say it's not enough.

Let the free market decide what people are worth.

I misread your post and I thought you were talking about taxes. I'm not for capping wages. Apply what I said to taxes.

Is it really the "free market" though? Is Trump attacking businesses an example of free markets? The powers at be manipulate what they want to manipulate then have the nerve to spew this "free market" bullshit and you conservatives eat that shit right up. It's a fantasy world, just like communism is a fantasy world. Stop acting like these GOP government talking points are a religion. Trickledown economics is bullshit. Raising taxes on the rich doesn't hurt the economy. They are selling you lies and you eat it up because it feeds your narcissism. You get to feel superior to the libs who want socialism and not to pull their own weight.

You say you believe in small government, less taxes and free markets yet you vote for Republicans who spend like crazy, allow business interests to eclipse the interests of the people and you voted for a President who continually sticks his nose into the affairs of private businesses and picks winners and losers. You seem to be ok with idea that of the whole economic system collapsing because you don't like "freeloaders". You've been brainwashed into voting against your own interests and the interests of America itself in the name of "personal responsibility". Which is just projection because the conservatives who espouse that idea the most, never take responsibility for anything.

They blame EVERYONE but themselves and the Republicans. It's always Hillary, Obama, liberals, poor people, illegals, black people and Muslims.The entire GOP is just reaction formation. They espouse to be everything that they really are not. Christian, conservative, family values. Patriotic and supportive of the military. All bullshit. Trump is true embodiment of his supporters beliefs and he is exposing them all for who they really are. The only ones who can't see it are his supporters because they are blind to themselves. Employing defense mechanism after defense mechanism so they never have to face the reality of their actions and who they really are. It's always finger pointing at the other. Well guess what, that "other", is really you.